In typical fashion, I anticipate tomorrow's headline in the Record-Courier to read something as follows:
Flashes eke out win against Bobcats
or
Kent State avoids another loss
I can't imagine how difficult it will be for David Carducci, Record-Courier staff writer, to say anything positive about Kent in its game against Ohio University. Perhaps he will have someone else write the game report. Either way, it will be interesting to see what the paper says about the Flashes win against the Bobcats and their 3-1 record in the MAC.
Posted on 10/24 8:13 PM | IP: Logged
I had some thoughts on his writing before and didn't plan on posting them, but since you hit the nail on the head I figured I would. I have always liked Dave and respected his point of view but after reading a couple recent articles I was really disappointed. A couple of them were really negative, derogatory in nature and just plain embarassing to the program. I thought I was reading a post from one of the 'when does KSU basketball start and football should be dropped' posse on ncaabbs and not by a professional sportswriter. Writers shouldn't be fans and get caught up in the hype but shouldn't also bash like that either. I know they're on scholarship, but they're still not paid professionals and that sort of writing should be reserved for the NFL/NBA and not NCAA athletes in the MAC.
Posted on 10/24 8:28 PM | IP: Logged
"Flashes back in MAC East title hunt By David Carducci
Record-Courier staff writer
ATHENS ? Kent State forced itself into the thick of the Mid-American Conference East Division race with a convincing 20-11 win over Ohio University Saturday at Peden Stadium.
The victory moved the Golden Flashes (4-4, 3-1) into a second-place tie with Ohio (5-3, 3-1), one game behind Temple in the East standings with four games remaining in the regular season.
The way in which they notched the victory suggested the 2009 Flashes may finally be ready to change the fortunes of their long-suffering program."
Posted on 10/25 5:49 AM | IP: Logged
In the same manner as "blainakisling1," who posted his/her comment to Carducci's article and admitted he/she was wrong about KSU, I will admit that I was wrong about Carducci ever saying anything positive about Kent State football.
"Gotta give credit where credit is due. I didn't think KSU or DM had it in them to go to Athens and come home with a W. Glad I was wrong. Congrats Flashes!," wrote blainakisling1.
Perhaps I should say, Gotta give credit where credit is due. I didn't think Carducci had it in him to go to Athens and come home with a positive story. Glad I was wrong. Congrats David!
Posted on 10/25 8:24 AM | IP: Logged
I've always liked Dave. I can see why you wouldn't like his style of writing though Nashville. You are the ultimate optimist. Dave calls it how he sees it. He doesn't have much for political correctness, which I personally like.
I was disappointed when Steve and Dave got into the feud on the NCAAbbs board. I like both of their styles in different ways. All in all, they both care a lot about KSU athletics, so it's hard to be critical of them for me.
Posted on 10/25 11:46 AM | IP: Logged
Thanksjim:
I understand that Steve and Dave have different writing styles but I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness. Please read my "Positive mindset" thread because in it I present a great example of a positive writing style. BTW, I can't say that I agree with your statement that Dave lacks political correctness because my feeling is he supports it.
This post was edited on 10/25 12:54 PM by nashvillegoldenflash
Nashville, Maybe I went a little overboard with the political correctness thing, but I still feel that Dave speaks his mind. You always paint a rosy picture no matter what the situation is. Not all things in life are positive and I don't mind a little negative writing every once in a while. I know that you will disagree with me on that point, but that okay.
Posted on 10/25 1:09 PM | IP: Logged
IMHO, DC writes the most honest coverage of KSU sports of any writer. He is obviously a fan, but he does not let that get in the way writing what he sees. Some writers are so jaded by their support, that they are not really reporting. I just disagree with most of you on DC.
Posted on 10/25 1:25 PM | IP: Logged
The headline should read Kent State don't hate.
Posted on 10/25 2:00 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by gflash68: Some writers are so jaded by their support, that they are not really reporting.
Based on your previous comments to me, I guess I'm in the jaded group.
I mean, after all, when the team was losing games this year I wasn't honest in how bad they were. I saw they had some things to overcome, like losing their starting quarterback to injury; losing their starting running back to injury; playing without a starter on the defensive line. Then, playing with a true freshman at quarterback.
Yet, throughout that time I was so jaded all I ever said is that I expected this team to be competitive in the MAC. All I ever said is how confident I was Doug Martin has the program headed in the right direction.
Kent State has improved in every area...almost on a weekly basis. The Golden Flashes aren't where they'd like to be, but they are on their way, regardless of what happens the next four weeks (five really).
I know during the rough patches that was just me wearing my blue and gold glasses and not being honest. But, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't report it any differently. I saw things the way I saw things.
Back in camp, when the offensive line didn't look so hot, I didn't write off the season. It was a scrimmage, a time for the coaches to plug different personnel in to find the right fit. They were missing some guys too.
Me, I like to think I keep things in perspective. If that's being jaded, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Posted on 10/25 7:24 PM | IP: Logged
I did not name anyone in the jaded group. I was mostly writing in support of DC because I was seeing the same things that he reported. I do enjoy all points of view as it makes me reevaluate my own views. As far as identifying others, I would just respectfully say, if the shoe fits, wear it. I prefer calling a spade a spade and no one is a bigger fan. I am just happy that we are finally trying to win games.
Posted on 10/25 9:33 PM | IP: Logged
It's all good...as I said, I'll be in the jaded group. That's fine by me, especially when what I report--my opinion--holds true.
The team continues to improve, in all facets of the game. They remain competitive in the Mid-American Conference. They are in the hunt for the MAC East title.
Earlier this season, I was told those things weren't happening. The team was awful, the coaching was awful. Martin wasn't the right guy for the job. It was endless.
I certainly won't claim a victory, because there is a lot of football left to play. But, so long as the Flashes put forth the same effort they have the last three weeks, I think my "jaded opinion" will be just fine.
Again, to me, it's about keeping things in their proper perspective.
You say you agreed with Dave because you saw the same things.
I did too...I was at the same scrimmages and the same practices.
But, where I saw an offensive line working through some different things, others saw failure. It was just a scrimmage.
Where I saw a team struggle to make plays in some early season games, others saw failure. To me, those games were meaningless and I said so. Beating Iowa State or Baylor or even Boston College wouldn't have done anything for the Flashes (don't believe me, ask Toledo about their win over Colorado).
What those games did was allow Kent State to work some things out and gave some experience to some key players, namely Spencer Keith.
Now, when the games matter--the MAC season--you're seeing a different team.
I haven't changed my opinion because the Flashes are winning now. They aren't perfect, but they are far better than any team I have witnessed in nearly 20 years following the team. I've said that all along.
It sure wasn't a popular opinion, especially in September.
Posted on 10/25 9:47 PM | IP: Logged
It's articles like this one that I found embarassing and way over the top.
My good friends, all games matter. First of all, winning attitudes can not be turned on and off based on games or opponents. Thankfully, I have been around a few winners like Don James, and believe me, he would scorn that attitude, as he expected to win every game, even with lesser talent. Transmitting that attitude to the fans is as important as building it with the players. I have never seen a winning coach enter a game with the attitude that players and even fans can read, as being defeatist, until this regime. We have played games that we had very good chances of winning and/or looking very good, only to barely show up. This is not fair to players, or paying fans. It is, in short, a sham. Most coaches would be fired on the spot for promoting such a system.
Now, do not get me wrong. I have support of my team and our chances now. I just do not think that we have been helped by the coaching in our loses to date. They even said as much about the passivity of the play calling in the fourth quarter against BG. Thankfully, they recognized that and went to OU with a different outlook. I will accept that we are unfortunately experiencing coaching learning on the job. It is just that after six seasons, I would classify it as slow learning on the job. I know that this is offensive to some, but either you try to win all of your games and foster a winning attitude, or you pick and choose, and hope to turn it on and off a week at a time. I say all of this with continued support and no one will be happier if I can experience one more MAC title before I check out. And yes, I will be in support of Coach Martin when it happens. If it does, it was an investment that paid off.
Posted on 10/26 12:23 PM | IP: Logged
gflash68, we'll never see eye to eye on Doug Martin. That's obvious.
And, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion.
But, keep this in mind. KSU has been 3-1 or better in the MAC nine times in 52 years as a member of the league. NINE friggin' times. Four of those occurrences happened in the 1950's.
Doug Martin's teams have done it twice.
That goes back to what I said about keeping things in perspective.
Don James isn't here at Kent State anymore. Lou Holt isn't here, neither is Pete Carroll or Charlie Weis or Jim Tressel.
There have been plenty of coaches here before Doug Martin, and since Don James not one of them has had two winning seasons in the MAC (not overall, just in conference).
Reminisce all you want about the old days. That isn't going to make the Flashes a better team.
The program is on the right track, I've said that for three years. I'm sorry that's not honest enough for you.
Posted on 10/26 3:18 PM | IP: Logged
I am not sure, but I believe that Dennis Fitzgerald was a winning coach overall, so I would guess that he had two winning seasons overall. I may be wrong and it would not be the first time.
With that, I can not disagree that Coach Martin is on the right track. Time will tell and I hope just as much as you that he succeeds. I do know that he is a nice man and very likable, so I understand your feelings. My frame of reference is just different from yours, as unfortunately (for me) I am older. We will compare notes after a few more games and hopefully, we will both be very happy. The possibility is there.
Posted on 10/26 4:02 PM | IP: Logged
Don James Era
1971 3-8-0 1972 6-5-1 1973 9-2-0 1974 7-4-0 Total wins 25 Total losses 19 Total ties 1
1974 9/7 @ Central Michigan (non-IA) W 21 14 9/14 @ Syracuse (2-9) W 20 14 9/21 vs. *Ohio (6-5) L 0 20 9/28 @ Eastern Michigan (non-IA) W 13 0 10/5 vs. *Western Michigan (3-8) W 28 6 10/12 @ *Bowling Green State (6-4-1) L 10 26 10/19 vs. Utah State (8-3) L 24 27 10/26 vs. Akron (non-IA) W 51 14 11/2 @ Marshall (1-10) W 35 7 11/9 @ *Miami (Ohio) (10-0-1) L 17 19 11/16 vs. *Toledo (6-5) W 35 14 Record 7-4-0
1973 9/15 vs. Louisville (5-6) W 10 3 9/22 @ *Ohio (5-5) W 35 7 9/29 @ San Diego State (9-1-1) L 9 17 10/6 @ *Western Michigan (6-5) W 39 15 10/13 vs. *Bowling Green State (7-3) W 21 7 10/20 vs. Eastern Michigan (non-IA) W 34 20 10/27 @ Utah State (7-4) W 27 16 11/3 vs. Marshall (4-7) W 35 3 11/10 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (11-0) L 10 20 11/17 @ *Toledo (3-8) W 52 16 11/24 vs. Central Michigan (non-IA) W 28 7 Record 9-2-0
1972 9/9 @ Akron (non-IA) T 13 13 9/16 @ Louisville (9-1) L 0 34 9/23 vs. *Ohio (3-8) W 37 14 9/30 vs. San Diego State (10-1) L 0 14 10/7 vs. *Western Michigan (7-3-1) L 12 13 10/14 @ *Bowling Green State (6-3-1) W 14 10 10/21 vs. Xavier (2-8) W 26 16 10/28 @ Northern Illinois (7-4) L 7 28 11/4 @ Marshall (2-8) W 16 14 11/11 @ *Miami (Ohio) (7-3) W 21 10 11/18 vs. *Toledo (6-5) W 27 9 12/29 vs. Tampa (10-2) L 18 21 @ Orlando, FL Tangerine Bowl Record 6-5-1
1971 9/11 @ North Carolina State (3-8) W 23 21 9/18 @ Cincinnati (7-4) L 20 42 9/25 @ *Ohio (5-5) L 21 37 10/2 vs. Iowa State (8-4) L 14 17 10/9 @ *Western Michigan (7-3) L 0 31 10/16 vs. *Bowling Green State (6-4) L 33 46 10/23 @ Xavier (1-9) W 24 13 10/30 vs. Northern Illinois (5-5-1) L 7 26 11/6 vs. Marshall (2-8) W 21 0 11/13 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (7-3) L 0 30 11/20 @ *Toledo (12-0) L 6 41 Record 3-8-0
Dennis Fitzgerald (Post-Lambert Era)
1975 4-7-0 1976 8-4-0 1977 6-5-0 Total wins 18 Total losses 16 Total ties 0
1977 9/10 vs. Illinois State (3-7-1) W 33 14 9/17 @ Colorado (7-3-1) L 0 42 9/24 vs. *Ball State (9-2) W 13 12 10/1 @ *Ohio (1-10) W 44 23 10/8 @ *Western Michigan (4-7) W 20 16 10/15 vs. *Bowling Green State (5-7) L 10 14 10/22 @ *Eastern Michigan (8-3) W 29 13 10/29 vs. *Northern Illinois (3-8) L 18 21 11/5 vs. *Central Michigan (10-1) L 10 49 11/12 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (10-1) L 0 25 11/19 @ *Toledo (2-9) W 23 12 Record 6-5-0
1976 9/11 @ *Central Michigan (7-4) W 20 10 9/18 vs. *Ohio (7-4) L 12 14 9/25 @ Iowa State (8-3) L 7 47 10/2 vs. Air Force (4-7) W 24 19 @ Cleveland, OH 10/9 vs. *Western Michigan (7-4) W 24 12 10/16 @ *Bowling Green State (6-5) L 13 17 10/23 @ Virginia Tech (6-5) L 14 42 10/30 vs. *Eastern Michigan (2-9) W 38 13 11/6 @ Hawaii (3-8) W 27 6 11/13 @ *Miami (Ohio) (3-8) W 24 17 11/20 vs. *Toledo (3-8) W 35 9 11/25 vs. *Northern Illinois (1-10) W 42 0 Record 8-4-0
1975 9/13 @ Louisiana-Monroe (4-6-1) W 31 29 9/20 vs. Virginia Tech (8-3) W 17 11 9/27 @ *Ohio (5-5-1) L 21 23 10/4 @ *Northern Illinois (3-8) L 15 38 10/11 @ *Western Michigan (1-10) W 22 17 10/18 vs. *Bowling Green State (8-3) L 9 35 @ Cleveland, OH 10/25 vs. *Central Michigan (8-2-1) L 8 17 11/1 @ West Virginia (9-3) L 13 38 11/8 vs. Marshall (2-9) W 30 21 11/15 vs. *Miami (Ohio) (11-1) L 8 27 11/22 @ *Toledo (5-6) L 28 33 Record 4-7-0
As an old-timer myself, I have gone back and studied these records and scores many times. As much as I want to believe that the Lambert teams were spectacular, the fact is they were not. Outside the MAC, the best win might have been the Louisville game in which the Flashes defeated a 5-6 Cardinal team in 1973. Keep in mind, Louisville was a member of the Missouri Valley Conference back then and did not have the prestige that it has today. Fitzgerald's best win outside the MAC might have been the Virginia Tech game in which Kent defeated an 8-3 Hokie team. Virginia Tech at that time was an independent and not the ACC power that we have seen in recent years.
Don James was a great coach no question about it. However, I can't help but think how fortunate he was to have Lambert play for him. Everyone knows I have covered the Lambert story on this site ever since I have been a member. I don't think I need to go back and tell the story again of how Jack came to play for Kent State. His development and leadership at Kent was amazing and to be honest there will probably never be another player like him wearing the blue and gold. It is not my intention to try to persuade you to think one way or another about Don James. His records are here for you to analyze and to draw your own conclusion. But the whole thrust of this thread was to poke a little fun at the local media (specifically David Carducci), and in the process if I have offended you and Mr. Carducci I am sorry. But if you honestly believe that Carducci was fair to Chris Gilbert in his report of the Iowa State game, you have a different set of journalistic values than I have. I realize that may sound judgmental on my part, but let me "just respectfully say, if the shoe fits, wear it."
This post was edited on 10/26 8:17 PM by nashvillegoldenflash
Posted on 10/26 7:34 PM | IP: Logged
gflash68:
In my anticipation of your follow-up arguments regarding Don James and the difficulties surrrounding his turbulent post-1970 years at KSU, let me just point out that when Dix Stadium was completed in 1969, it was arguably the finest facility in the MAC with a seating capacity of around 30,000. To my knowledge, the only other MAC facility that had equal capacity was BG's Doyt L. Perry Stadium that opened in 1966 and held 30,599 people. Prior to Yager Stadium opening in 1983, Miami played at Miami Field. When it closed in 1982, the seating capacity was only 14,800 people. At that time, it was the second oldest college football stadium after Franklin Field. Following Toledo's 35-game win streak from 1969 to 1971, the Glass Bowl was expanded to only 18,500. Peden Stadium in Athens, Ohio was built in 1929 and only seated 12,000 people. It wasn't until 1986 that major renovations enlarged the permanent seating capacity to 19,000. Peden's five-story tower was not constructed until 1990.
So with respect to stadiums, Don James was able to offer recruits the opportunity to play in the newest and best faciltity in the MAC when he was coaching at Kent. Now that Dix Stadium has finally been renovated to compete with other MAC facilties, we are starting to see much better recruits coming to Kent. Coincidence? I doubt it because recruits will tell you nice facilities are one of the first things that they look for when deciding on a school.
Perhaps you had no such intentions to continue this discussion. But if you had, this was one argument that I wanted to make.
This post was edited on 10/26 10:41 PM by nashvillegoldenflash
No, I was not going to extend the discussion in that direction, because I am not much of one for excuses about such things from a coaching staff. Just as a point, Miami had the best teams and talent during that time and for some time thereafter, beating teams such as Purdue, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. I never heard of their coach complaining about the old, old, 14,000 seat stadium he had to recruit to. There are so many parameters involved with coaching and recruiting that an excuse can be made by anyone from anywhere. Basically, a coach worth his salt will either not take a job at a place where he thinks he can not win, or he will resign from a place that makes it impossible for him to win. And I will submit, Don James came into a situation with even a greater discrepancy of talent than most of our recent regimes. Don James followed Dave Puddington, who came from a D-3 school, and he recruited for 3 years D-3 caliber players. His nose tackle was 195 pounds going against upbacks of 220 pounds or larger. As much as we both admire and love Jack Lambert, he was considered a D-3 recruit because of his build. So, we can all pick our convenient arguments, or excuses and expound upon them. That is why they call us FANatics. I wear that shoe proudly and I imagine that you do too.
Posted on 10/27 1:13 PM | IP: Logged
It's interesting that the Miami coach who defeated Purdue, Georgia, and South Carolina was Dick Crum who later coached at Kent. Crum served as the head coach at Miami from 1974-1977. His other two upset wins included victories over Kentucky (1974) and Indiana (1977). At Miami, Crum had 3 winning season in 4 years and won the Mid-American Conference three times. In his first two years he led Miami to the Tangerine Bowl where they beat Georgia in 1974 and South Carolina in 1975. These two teams also finished ranked in the final AP poll at #10 in 1974 and #12 in 1975. However, the performance of his 1976 squad fell dramatically by finishing 3-8. Crum rebounded the following year by leading the Redskins to a 10-1 record. He finished his career at Miami with a career record of 34-10-1.
Despite his success at Miami, Crum never could put together a winning season in 3 years at Kent and ended his career after going 7-26.
Dick Crums' record at Kent
1988 5-6 1989 0-11 1990 2-9
Most people would probably say that Crum was washed up by the time he came to KSU. It still amazes me how a coach can be so successful at Miami and yet be such a failure at Kent. But as you know, Kent has had a lot of unsuccessful coaches from Ron Blackledge to Ed Chiebeck to Dick Scesniak to Dick Crum to Pete Cordelli to Jim Corigall to Dean Pees. The jury may still be out on Doug Martin, but I am confident that he will eventually prevail based on his last two highly ranked recruiting classes and recent wins over Miami, Eastern Michigan, and Ohio University.
Posted on 10/27 7:18 PM | IP: Logged
What is most interesting about Crum, is that he went to North Carolina and revived a dead program. Even took them to top 10. I think he was there for about 10 years and is still the most wins of any coach in UNC history. Then, he was fired and hired by KSU.
Posted on 10/28 1:24 PM | IP: Logged
Speaking of Crum, I was at a game one time and in the student section across the whole end zone they had a sign that said "DUMP THE DICK" obviously they answered there wishes. If it was not for Lou Holtz we would of had Gary Pinkel at least for a couple years. We ended up with Corrigal.
Posted on 10/28 2:16 PM | IP: Logged
Actually, we ended up with Cordelli, Holtz qb assistant at ND. Rumors have it that Holtz knew he was no good and wanted to dump him, so he sent him to his Alma Mater. I have held that against Holtz since. Pinkel wanted the job and Jack Lambert spoke up for Pinkel. JL has had nothing to do with KSU since.
Posted on 10/28 2:28 PM | IP: Logged
Yeah my bad I knew it was one of them. Yeah I was a little younger then but I remember sitting in the stands and my dad was saying "f"in Lou Holtz. He has hated him ever since. Like I have said before I have sat in those stands a long time and seen some pretty bad football. I miss it now that they are actually competitive, but SEC games are a fine substitution.
Posted on 10/28 2:39 PM | IP: Logged
"JL has had nothing to do with KSU since."
gflash68:
I believe that Jack returned to Kent for a football game sometime after he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame on August 4, 1990. Since Pete Cordelli was hired at Kent on December 4, 1990, Jack must have returned to Kent during the fall of 1990 before Cordelli was ever hired. However, if the record shows that he came back to Kent after the fall of 1990, then your claim that Lambert has had nothing to do with Kent after Pinkel was rejected and Cordelli was hired is invalid. Perhaps you are correct about this but just keep in mind that Jack is an intensely private person. Just because he has not been back to Kent in many years doesn't mean that he has a rift with the school. The fact of the matter, Jack has remained somewhat reclusive since his retirement after the 1984 season, and did not even show up for the Steelers game two years ago as part of the Steelers 75th Season team. Lambert, who lives outside Pittsburgh in nearby Armstrong County, informed the Steelers he would not attend. Virtually every other living member of the 33-man team appeared at the game. The only other living player on the all-time team not at the game was linebacker Joey Porter. I don't believe Jack is totally bitter about his alma mater because he is seen wearing a Kent State shirt in the photo below. The "A" on his cap is for Armstrong County, PA where he has lived since his retirement.
I am not trying to be contentious. However, I would like to know if your notion that Lambert has nothing to do with KSU anymore is based on facts or is it based on pure speculation?
If this question is for me, I went to Kent, my ex wife went to Kent, my two children went to Kent. I have easily attended 80 percent of the home FB and BB games for more than 30 years. If you throw in away games, I have only attended only 60 percent of the games.
Posted on 10/28 10:36 PM | IP: Logged
"I am not trying to be contentious. However, I would like to know if your notion that Lambert has nothing to do with KSU anymore is based on facts or is it based on pure speculation?"
Let me clarify as in review, the statement is misleading. I do know that JL has returned to KSU when the 72 team had reunions. I have attended those and have spoken to JL and other former players in attendance. JL is different to say the least. I have been told that he has rejected several attempts of the athletic department to become involved and that the rejection of his buddy was at least partially the cause. To be totally truthful,I can not be 100 percent certain of this as it was from someone else. It did sound logical to me. I should not have passed it on as absolute fact.
Posted on 10/28 10:46 PM | IP: Logged
gflash68:
Fair enough. With respect to beasterd's question, I believe it was directed to me but to be honest I am just going to ignore it. I would like to know more about the Lambert-Pinkel-Holtz-Cordelli story but believe I might be able to determine the last time Lambert came back to campus because I still have the alumni publication that has his Hall of Fame picture on the front cover and the story of his return to KSU. I just have to find it first. It shouldn't be too hard to find because I just saw it sometime this summer.
Posted on 10/28 11:08 PM | IP: Logged
nville flash you have to realize I love your posts. You obviously have a great love for the MAC. All I have to say is I respect that. Thank you for the support. If I seem negative I have my reasons but I will sit next to you when we win the MAC!
Posted on 10/28 11:16 PM | IP: Logged
The question was for nville flash.
Posted on 10/29 10:01 AM | IP: Logged
Sorry, that I mistook the question for me. I responded reluctantly, because even though I am proud of my support of KSU, I basically consider that support my business only, and not necessarily a source of bragging rights. We all hopefully, have our hearts in the right place for whatever reasons. We just differ from background, vision, and opinion of what we witness.
Posted on 10/29 11:31 AM | IP: Logged
No worries I grew up in Kent and graduated from Kent and we share the same views. I am just happy to see the team in a good position for once. 30 years of losing can make you bitter. Everyone has to admit that the beginning of the year things did not look good, but they have obviously got it together and it looks like the team has a bright future in front of it.
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